Kelen Conley: I was a bit let down by this episode. After the character development heaviness that was last episode, to have everybody else forced into this episode kind of sucked. It was great in terms of moving the story along, which a lot of TWD detractors say never happens, but as a fan of the show, maybe I wanted more character development. SPOILERS…
I wasn’t able to get a read on Daryl at all. He seemed depressed but he was pretty much business as usual aside from having a place to lay his head at night. Beth has me completely confused now. Season premiere she’s all like, “People die.” Now she’s all like, “There’s hope.” I really dislike her anyway. She hasn’t done anything like past hated characters Lori or Andrea, but that might be the problem.
I really wasn’t gripped by Sasha, Bob, and Maggie’s tale either. The only thing we learned about them is they know Glenn didn’t die on the bus and that somehow the bus got overran by walkers. Perhaps they ran out of gas. Right now, Bob and Sasha’s dynamic interests me the most here, probably because Sasha was ready to “thank” Bob before the final prison attack. And I’d really like to see another take on Love After the Apocalypse besides Maggie and Glenn.
The Glenn storyline was intriguing, due to the fact that he picked up Tara (who I’m lessening my hate for due to enjoying Alanna Masterson’s appearance on Talking Dead) during his daring prison escape. I was thinking we were going down the road of Glenn on the road with an attractive woman that’s not Maggie (I think she’s a “lesbian” by the way, not a lesbian) but the appearance of three new characters (Abraham, Eugene, and Rosita) put the brakes on that idea. Considering these are the first new characters we’re getting that weren’t aligned with the Governor in some way in a season and half, I’m anxious to see where this goes. And did Glenn collapse again before the episode ended? If so, I’m glad they’re selling his illness still. It just shows how close he may have been to dying before he got medicine.
The best part of the episode goes to Tyreese and the Prison Survivor Kids. For the first time, I feel like Tyreese is doing something other than complaining about other characters, crying, using his hammer, or risking his neck foolishly. I like this Tyreese.
Not surprised to see Judith alive. While having the baby gone would make it easier to get around, Judith stands for the chance of a future without walkers again; I don’t think you can let that idea die completely.
But Krazy Lizzie (and yes, I want to use the K) almost suffocated Judith before Daryl’s official bad ass counterpart Carol showed up again! This has to mean that she was somehow involved in Karen and David’s death, right? I still don’t buy Carol’s “best for the group” reasoning completely.
I like the contrast between Lizzie and Mika. Mika gives us another kid who is still scared by this new world and remembers the old ways. I just hope she’s more Carl than Sophia. I could also see her ratting out Carol/Krazy Lizzie to Tyreese if there’s a quiet moment for them. But you know the truth is coming.
Terminus sounds like a concentration camp. Having only read up to issue 48 in Compendium One, I have no idea what’s next. I can’t imagine the group being led to the slaughter…well, anymore then they’re led to the slaughter everyday.
Thomas Crawford: I tend to disagree with your thoughts about Daryl. Daryl is not going on as business as usual. The man is hurting I think, just the only way he knows how to handle it is stoic silence…and killing walkers. I think this may be a backtrack for Daryl in some ways. In the prison, he had found a home, and had sort of come to peace with his brother’s death and having to put him down as a walker. Now?
Well his “home” is gone. His surrogate family, people he had grown to trust are scattered or dead he doesn’t know. You can see that the Daryl who liked to joke, and actually smile, has sort of reverted back to almost season one. His comment about Herschel to Beth seemed more of the cold, harsh Daryl from season one then the Daryl who appeared to be more open and caring. A side note, it is not new to us, but in TWD world, he had also just learned of Rick putting Carol out of the group. She was who he was closest with, and this is only a couple days at most after he found that out. This is a lot for anyone to really deal with, and I think we are going to see a harsher and bitter Daryl this season. By the way, totally agree about Beth, her voice over monologue was really weird considering she had just seen her father beheaded, and lost her sister. I’m up in the air about her.
Honestly, I have to say that the Maggie, Bob, and Sasha piece was not needed. Hear me out, I know there are a lot of people that love Maggie and Glenn and are glad she is okay, but I think the writers made a goof with this piece. The entire sequence was about Maggie trying to find out of Glenn was still alive. As a character, this is important. As a fan, it is sort of pointless. I can’t remember how many trailers I have seen Glenn, waking up over the edge of walkers. We never know where he is or why he is there, but we know he is alive.
She finds the walker that seems to have the hair style of Glenn, and kills it. Then she sits down, and starts to cry. Maybe she is laughing. However, we KNOW it isn’t Glenn. This just seemed that with the promos for the past few months, this was anti-climactic and not needed. Disagree if you like.
Wow…Lizzie is beyond psycho. I am not sure if this is something that has been building or whatever, but I thought baby Judith was in serious trouble. I have to say children can be the creepiest characters in any story. My hope is that this is just the beginning. The writers would miss out if they don’t push this character forward and possibly make her a main reason that some of our beloved TWD characters end up in serious trouble.
On top of that, we see the return of the baddest woman on the planet…literally at this time, Carol. I agree, Tyreese is going to find out at some point. Eventually, I think we the fans are going to finally get the entire mystery unraveled about what happened. Did Carol really do it? My vote is no, I think she covered it up. I think Lizzie had something to do with it, possibly trying to feed the turned Karen and David. It is just a theory, but Lizzie did view the walkers almost like pets in first part of the season. Something to think about.
We get introduced to three new characters as you mentioned. We also see a new safe haven in Terminus. I think the Talking Dead guests have it right. I think this group is more military based, and probably not going to be a true safe haven. At this point I haven’t read any of the comics past the end of the prison. I am in the dark, and think I am just going to take it a week at a time. My gut tells me that the group will reunite at this place, and find something even worse then the Governor and the town of Woodbury. Just have to wait and see.
Overall, the story was rushed a bit, and not one of the best episodes. This is one time that the writers could have taken their time. This was a chance to maybe take two weeks to really build these characters and what they are going through. I am glad they didn’t decide to drag out every episode as an entire sequence for each individual group. However, this still seemed rushed. On the plus side, this could mean that the writers have a lot of action packed and exciting stories to tell in the weeks to come.
KC: I wanted to come back to your Daryl comments. I do think Daryl is lost but I don’t see him reverting back to the Daryl from the season one camp outside of Atlanta. He’s come a long way and I think it would be bad for his character if he reverts back to that ignorant person he used to be.
He’s definitely been through a lot in the past few days and being stuck with Beth isn’t exactly the most uplifting thing, but I think we’ll see him start to come to terms in the next episode. I wouldn’t be shocked if he and Beth are the first ones to meet up with Team Careese (see what I did there?) at Terminus. I could see a happy reunion for Carol and Daryl being spoiled once Tyreese learns the truth.
I do agree that I think Terminus is more military based than what we’ve seen but I don’t know about worse than the Governor. I mean, there wasn’t any redeeming moments for him during his entire run on the show other than taking people in and starting Woodbury. The man was a monster; evil incarnate. It’ll take a lot for these new characters to live up to that.
I like your Krazy Lizzie/Karen/David theory, except I feel like they weren’t turned yet. While it only took Patrick a few hours to get sick, die, and turn, I don’t think Karen and David died and turned that fast. In “Infected“, Rick burned the pig pen after he sacrificed the pigs to the walkers. Carol had Lizzie and Mika outside in the scene directly before this. Krazy Lizzie could have seen Rick doing this and headed straight into the tombs where the sick were being isolated. Remember: Carol wanted Lizzie to stab her father, Ryan, in the head to prevent him from reanimating earlier in this episode, but she couldn’t do it. Maybe after her talk with Carol at the fence, she was determined to prove that she could handle herself and contribute to the group. I think Karen and David were the first people in the quarantine. It wouldn’t have been hard for her to sneak up on them and stab them both in the head if they were asleep/resting/prone from being sick. Carol and Mika then walk in on this, Carol acts quickly by dragging their bodies outside and setting them on fire. She then could have ushered Lizzie and Mika away shortly before Tyreese arrived.
I just don’t see a scenario where Lizzie kills reanimated Karen and David without a gun personally.
I meant to add a Kill Watch to my first part so here’s who I’m thinking might buy TWD farm soon:
- Bob – His character went from mystery, to hero, to alcoholic, risk taking jerk, to hero doctor, to wounded, beloved group member on the road. They’re setting something up here.
- Beth – She’s pretty much outlived her usefulness.
- Glenn – As much as I like him, he dodged a bullet by a hair with his being sick earlier this season. He may be safe now since Herschel was murdered.
- Judith – As proven by Krazy Lizzie, that baby ain’t safe yet. Hell, she’s a baby in TWD, she’ll never be safe!
- Maggie – I almost feel like her and Glenn’s love storyline has run its course. It’s also much harder to envision TWD minus Glenn than it is her. They haven’t done anything interesting with her since the Gov damn near raped her last season though.
And that last sentence makes me sound like a horrible person.
TC: I’m going to start this wrap up by saying we will have to wait and see about Daryl. I think he got a little too comfortable in the first part of the season. I may have misspoke, I don’t believe he will revert completely back to season one. However, the Daryl who offers some laughs and comfort isn’t going to be back for this season. He is going to become a no-nonsense, don’t trust anybody, ass kicker. I totally agree by the way, Beth and him together is just a weird start and I’m not sure I like it.
I will agree that I like your theory about Lizzie wanting to prove herself to Carol by killing Karen and David. This could have been the act that has turned Lizzie, the walker naming annoyance, into Lizzie, the rabbit gutting almost baby killer. She is a little psycho and honestly is my favorite for creepiest character of the year. There is one thing we both are forgetting, and that is Maggie.
Go back to when Rick came back to the prison after banishing Carol. Again, that scene was emotional and interesting on many different levels. The fact is, the only person there was Maggie. She asked where Carol was, and Rick told her she admitted to killing and burning Karen and David. Just freeze that moment in time, look at Maggie’s face. Is it just me, or does she KNOW something? Maybe it is me, but all your talk about Maggie just sort of reminded me of when I brought that up in the first part of the season. The entire thing might be more complicated than any of us realizes.
I will also agree, I am sort of tired of the Maggie and Glenn love story. However, at this point they have sort of cornered the market. I know you want a Rick/Michonne love story developed, but I don’t see that happening. I also don’t see Daryl, with his mindset, being a character to develop a love story this season. What about Bob? I think if you are wrong, and he isn’t killed off, they may be developing his character to build a love interest. It is a shot in the dark, but something I can see as a possibility.
I like your Kill Watch list. Truthfully the only characters I am sure are completely safe this season are Rick, Carl, and Daryl. Rick and Carl are safe for obvious reasons. Daryl…well, there would be a big drop off in viewers if one of the most popular characters was killed off. Some may disagree with my thinking. However, I think it is clear that TWD likes throwing us for a loop when we think we know who is safe and not. What about Michonne? What about Carol? What about Tyreese? In my mind, they are all possible kill offs this season. That is the beauty of the show, you think someone is safe, and find out the writers tend to have little mercy when choosing characters to kill off.
Finally, we tend to be mostly on the same page about Terminus. What I meant though was teasers I heard about the comic, where a truly evil character was developed. Now, the show does not follow the comics exactly. You say the Governor was evil incarnate. I will say he was a bad guy. I will also point out he was actually a much more watered down version of the Governor in the comic. When I watch the Governor, I see a man who has seen some extreme circumstances just snap. Is he evil incarnate? I’m not so sure I would give him that title. It is a perspective thing. This was a man that lost his daughter, watched her turn, and watched Michonne put a katana through her head, found a safe haven, and watched it crumble in a terrifying new world.
My point is, I’m not disagreeing he was bad. However, I think a lot of what he did he thought was for the best for him and his people. When I say an evil character, I am talking about a character that loves hurting people. I am not talking about a sociopath, or someone who does what he thinks is “best”. I am not even talking about someone on a power trip. I am talking about a character that gets off on causing pain and suffering. There is a possibility, in my mind, that they could develop a character like this in Terminus. You can disagree and say there is no way that there is a more evil character than the Governor. I will put it to you then, what is going to be struggle for this season? Where does the show go from here? They have to develop this character in my mind for TWD to continue to be compelling. We will have to wait and see what develops.